Triturus Vulgaris co-existing with Cynops Orientalis
(New AQUATERRA Project)
1 Female, 2 Male ___ (Mid-Asian) ____ Chinese _________________ "C. Oientalis Orientalis" ________- Chinese Orangebelly _______(Exotic-Wildtype)
3 _______________ (South-Asian) ___ Indonesian _______________ "P. (Aphtalmus) Kuhli Kuhli" ____ - Kuhli loach var. Brown ____ (Exotic-Wildtype)
Co-Extisting of the Cynops spec. and the Triturus spec.
One big succes!
Triturus Vulgaris Vulgaris is a nice interesting species, fast.. intelligent. Easy to care, eats all that's catcheble for the mouth... A good hunter! Now co-existing with an Eastern species, which do not breed among eachother, but have a strong relation ship.. both friendly ... besides this succes, the Brown Kuhli can enjoy the friendly tankmates, that respect such fish that look like there food, they share food from mouth to mouth literaly, and figurly
T. Vulgaris Vulgaris, Origin: Near Hambaken and Orthen .. North of 's-Hertogenbosch, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands (South-East)
Geographic Location of the species nearby the catch... red marking is the next bus stop to new aquahome ... this area is a typical home of dutch small-water landscape... also left in the highcorner is a possible home of this species. "Triturus Vulgaris Vulgaris".
SMALL WATERFLOW, C. Orientalis Orientalis on background
monday, 7th of may, 2012 (palludarium)
friday, 22th of juni, 2012 (palludarium)
(Fred N. Poeser's: letter) Endler's Livebearer ... Endless chatter or finally an answer? (Translated version by Kevin van Dijk)
(.by Kevin van Dijk.)
(Fred N. Poeser's letter)
Endler's Livebearers . . . . . . .
Endless chatter or finally an answer?
Twenty-five years Poecilia, a historic event. While in honor of this event, it was a symposium lecture on the latest developments in the hobby. Through my association with the University of Amsterdam, I am actively doing it itself. This time I could tell something about the Endler guppy, or rather, Endler's Livebearers.
The story going around on the internet is as follows. In 1975, Dr. John Endler caught a fish near the city Cumaná in Venezuela. He gave his fish to Dr. Don Rosen because he thought it was a new species. It was a fish that occurred between other guppies (or rather, in the same lake but in a warmer place) but could not cross with "common" guppies. In 1976 there where more fish caught the by Dr. Endler indicated spot. Later it appeared more and more fish in the hobby. Interesting detail is that Dr. Rosen, meanwhile, died of a brain tumor, the fish where now in the hands of a German researcher who immediately retired, and also by Dr. Kallman (a major researcher in the genetics of Xiphophorus) gave it to NY Aquarium. It seemed like there was a curse on the fish.
In the nineties, more and more pictures spread around of Poecilia spec. or Poecilia "Endleri" and I also started my interest in this fish. The big question was: is it a variation of the common guppy or is it a separate species? The guppy Itself is called the Poecilia reticulata, is from Venezuela and called for so since 1859. Another type of Trinidad in 1866 was described as Girardinus guppii where the fish his username owes. The species Lebistes poecilioides where the guppy since 1913 was seen related to its genus name, well the name crashed inside the trashcan (when it comes to guppies). Since 1963, moreover, officially called the guppy Poecilia reticulata normal again. That was the situation at the moment I became involved.
In the scientific world I landed here and studied the fish in Cumaná and I maintained contact with several people who were involved in that investigation. I didn't observe and sit still, so I asked a lot of material in the UMMZ, the museum manages a large collection of preserved material. Dr. Endler had previously said he had seen the fish there in one of the pots and I wanted to see it.
In 2000 it became clear that none of the studies in Cumaná would constitute a new species and with renewed energy, I started working. Jar after jar was opened and the fish measured again, and rays by rays, scale by scale, counted. There were also photographs of some specimens of which I thought drawing was a bit suspicious. Unfortunately, the fish that came out Cumaná are "Ordinary" guppies, they were prety useless. However, there were fish with the famous "Endler comma", a feature that many aquarium fish had: a black blotch on the dorsal fin from the body back into the belly. But those fish did not came from Cumaná ... Also Dr.. Endler mailed me that the last fish is not "his" fish. Unfortunately. Throughout 2000 and 2001 had not been very successful, but more knowledge about the variation in color pattern and size of the guppy.
How often does it happen that there comes a moment that you are feel down, you just sit in a dip and a fresh one, with a fresh look at the case, offers a solution? Michael Kempkes was visiting and he suggested to go to Venezuela to go over there and take a look, and search for the truth ourself. That was a good idea and in a short time we had two return tickets to Venezuela in our pocket. What we saw Campoma in 2002 in the region and the guppy which that we have described from there may be known: Poecilia wingei the "Campoma guppy".
In 2004 a publication by Drs. Alexander and Breden which they enumerated the differences they found were from many different guppypopulations, including those from Cumaná. Just three populations, from the city and from locations other than where Dr.. Endler fish had been caught the fishes were larger and had a different color pattern. And like me, they found that no reason for the fish to been seen as a separate species to be classified.
Ironically, many people found it in 2005, a reason to call all Endler guppies Poecilia wingei after Michael and I (together with Dr. Isbrucker of the University of Amsterdam) had suggested that the fish that Dr. Endler had ever found an could be and released population Campoma guppies.
So far the history, then what have I done?
Later that year I went to America and I restudied guppypopulations from the collection of New York, Chicago and Michigan. I discovered that there are areas where the differences between reticulata and guppii not been signed and that the two "types" classification also crosses in nature. That's why I've decided to study the guppies as two different subspecies: Poecilia reticulata reticulata and Poecilia reticulata guppii. One of the intersections of different populations is at Cumaná, so I think the Endler guppies are the result of ardent declarations of love from the tolerant multicultural maleguppies of the three taxa that occur there.
When I was in Michigan, I also searched for the fishes from Dr. Endler they seen seems to have "his" fish in a separate pot, which could be described as new species. And yes, hooray, there was a new Micropoecilia present, described in 1940 but never published. There was the fish that Dr. Endler in Cumaná had seen and it could not cross with guppies. It is quite possible that this new kind needs warmer water, because Micropoecilia are simply different fish than guppies. What is now the uncomfortable situation, Endler's guppies fish are not the same fish as Endler's Livebearers
(Important Notice from writer "Kevin van Dijk")
4 Taxa of Guppy's, genus Poecilia, subgenus Acanthophacelus:
•Poecilia reticulata reticulata Peters, 1859
•Poecilia reticulata guppii Günter, 1894
•Poecilia wingei Poeser, Kempkes & Isbrücker, 2005
•Poecilia obscura Schories, Meyer & Schartl, 2008
A swarm of hybrid's between these fishes caused a lot of diversity of "Endler's guppy's".
6 Taxa of Micro's, genus Poecilia, subgenus Micropoecilia:
•Poecilia parae Eigenmann, 1894
•Poecilia branneri Eigenmann, 1894
•Poecilia bifurca Eigenmann, 1907
•Poecilia picta Regan, 1913
•Poecilia minima Costa & Sarraf, 1997
•Poecilia Endleri / Poecilia spec. . This one is "Endler's Livebearer" (Or in fact "Endler's micro")
So to split it up:
•Endler's Livebearer (ELB), Endler's "micro" = Poecilia (Micropoecilia) Endleri
•Campoma/Cumaná guppy or Endler's "guppy" = Poecilia (Acanthophacelus) wingei - Poeser, Kemkes & Isbrucker, 2005
Endlers.nl - What is a species; remarks on the renaming of ELB to Poecilia wingei
Species mean more to humans than they do to Nature. Species boundaries are artifical constructs that exist to make life quantifiable and classifiable. The very fact that Endlers and "regular" guppies interbreed so easily reinforces this point, and whatever we call an ELB, from the point of view of a guppy, it's close enough to be seen as a potential mate.
When animals like fish receive a name in a scientific paper, this is merely an opinion. Creating a scientific name doesn't "do" anything to the animal, and often other scientists will disagree with the the new name. Scientists will be looking for reasons to squash the "new" species name. In the case of the ELB there are arguments over the methods used, the regular guppies that the comparisons were made with, the form of the gonopodium, etc. etc..
The classical definition of species ( By definition it applies only to organisms which reproduce sexually...) was proposed by Ernst Mayr in 1942, defining it as reproductively isolated groups of organisms. In his book Systematics and the Origin of Species (1942) he wrote that a species is not just a group of morphologically similar individuals, but a group that can breed only among themselves, excluding all others.
This is known as the "biological species definition" - An animal is a member of that species if, mated to another member of the species, they produce offpring which are in turn capable of producing offspring of that species.
The offspring of a horse and donkey, or a tiger and lion, goat and sheep, are sterile (almost all the time), because horses and donkeys, and tigers and lions, etc. are members of different species.
( That makes this offspring the REAL hybrids...not the crosses between guppy and ELB, that are NO hybrids in the classical sense..)
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Almost every aquariumhobbiest has had, or still has, some fishes refered to as :"Endlers"....the variety of sizes, tailforms and colors does seem infinite, but no matter what...its still called an Endler by the owners or LFS..
Its impossible to trace the original fishes that went into the hobby..years and years of linebreeding, inbreeding and whatever more produced a fish thats often proudly presented as a REAL Endler.
Although its possible to have offspring from the original fish that John Endler pointed at, its more likely that you have a undoubtfully very beautiful fish, but not the probably ( relatively) extinct "pure" Poecilia sp.endler....
Meanwhile a lot of hobbiest and traders claim to have to only and true one...so be it...the criterium of what should be called an "Endler" is very subjective; its definition is continuously changing.
How inconvenient it may be....meanwhile there is strong evidence that John Endlers original fish may be a separate species with eventual sub-species; it is stated several times on congresses, meetings etc. : it is NO guppy, so also not the Campoma guppy !!
If that all is no problem for you..there is an abundance of fantastic looking fish on the "market" that is available on very reasonable prices.
No matter what you call them; its great fun to see the variations and colors when you have your own "breeding-facility"
There will be only ONE problem ( that is also for many other livebearers..): "where to get rid of all the offspring".:-)
Care - The Endler's Livebearer is a very easy to care for fish. Their care is almost identical to that of the guppy. Endler's will accept regular tropical flake foods, but only really like livebearer foods, all live and once-live foods. They like quite hard (high kH and/or dH) water, as well as slightly basic water, which works well in high-kH conditions.
Endler's Livebearers are very adaptable to the water conditions provided to them. Most of these will be very much like those required for other tropical aquarium fish. .
Endler's will live for up to 2-3 years if well cared for.
Tankmates - Corydoras species: Cory catfish (any of the species) Otocinclus cf. affinis: Oto; Dwarf Algae Eater (any of the small 'affinis-type' species)
Kryptopterus Bicirrhis: Glass Catfish
Heterandia formosa: Dwarf Topminnow; Dwarf Mosquito Fish
Aplocheilichthys Normani: Norman's lampeye
Hemigrammus Erythrozonus: Glowlight Tetra (any small Hemigrammus species) Paracheirodon species: Neon Tetra, Cardinal Tetra (all Paracheirodon species) Hyphessobrycon Herbertaxelrodi: Black Neon Tetra
Carnegiella Strigata: Marbled Hatchetfishes, Carnegiella Marthae: Blackwing Hatchetfish
Gasteropelecus Levis: Common Hatchedfish, Gasteropelecus Sternicla: Silver Hatchetfish
Pangio (Acanthophthalmus) kuhlii: Kuhli Loach
Poecilia reticulata: Common guppy, Poecilia obscura: Oropuche guppy, (but remember) P. reticulata and P. obscura are from the same subgenus: Aacnthophacelus, so they will cross-breed, if brought together, you will get a "Hybrid" Guppy)
Invertebrates that can be safely kept with ELB:
Caridina japonica: Amano Shrimp, Neocaridina denticulata sinensis: Cherry Shrimp
Snails: All of the commonly-kept freshwater species.
Breeding - They will breed like mad as long as there are males and females present, and usually do not eat their fry. Many variations in color and pattern may show up, if a large, phenotypcially varied sample is bred; . Just watching the results of a large breeding population can be a fascinating lesson in genetic probability. Acquiring a fairly narrow selection will end up with near uniform color patterns after several generations. The males get their coloration in about 3-5 weeks, the females stay looking nearly the same.
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